Gerald Bauer
2004-10-05 23:56:34 UTC
Hello,
allow me to highlight the response by Marc Clifton (of MyXAML fame)
and by Frank Hileman (of VG.NET fame) to the Avalon Knock-Offs blog
story.
Marc writes in the blog story titled "Microsoft Is Missing The Boat":
Regarding Avalon-XAML, I pretty much agree with what he's saying. This
is why I've tried to position MyXaml not as an Avalon-XAML ripoff, but
rather as a declarative programming language in its own right. I
think there's a lot to be gained, possibly generally, in building
applications with a clear separation between declarative and
imperative programming. It makes the task of design and
implementation easier and it provides the customer with a flexible,
customizable, and easily upgradeable product. It opens the door to
server-based rich-thin client applications.
So yes, in my mind, not only is Xamlon missing the boat, but Microsoft
is too.
Regarding VG.net, I think comparing it to Avalon/XAML is like mixing
apples and oranges. It's a self-contained product. And besides, it
has a full-fledged designer which Xamlon and Microsoft don't have.
How you can compare VG.net with Avalon and Xamlon is beyond me.
As to who's borrowing ideas from whom--let's get real here folks.
Avalon borrowed ideas from SVG and XAML is a borrowed idea from
several XML-based declarative languages--both have been available for
years before Microsoft decided to get on board.
Now, one more thing--isn't Microsoft's XAML idea dead? If it's just a
"neat serialization format", so what? We have designers that already
serialize to code. I wouldn't ever want to manually create a vector
graphics serialized image--there are going to have to be good design
tools for that--and edits are pretty much restricted to really simple
changes. So what's the point of XAML if it's just a nifty
serialization format for a UI and vector graphics? I sure don't see any.
Like I said, Microsoft is missing the boat too. I have several
customers that see the benefit of separating declarative and
imperative code and with whom I'm working on developing the rich-thin
client concept further, so it seems there are some people that do "get
it". Microsoft, to date, isn't one of them.
Source: http://myxaml.com/marcclifton/archive/2004/10/05/504.aspx
Frank Hileman writes:
As far as borrowing ideas -- I am the lead dev for VG.net, and have
been building object oriented vector graphics systems since 1986, long
before Avalon, long before SVG, even before X-windows came along. I
have ported graphics sytems to every rendering engine under the sun.
VG.net is a combination of ideas from the past, our own ideas, as well
as a leveraging GDI+ capabilities.
The VG.net styling system is definitely from CSS, which is similar to
SVG. The VG.net object model is designed to be easier to use than SVG,
and as a consequence, it is easier to use than Avalon. But it is not
based on either.
- Gerald
---------------------------
Gerald Bauer
Rich Client Conference (RichCon) 2005 - http://richcon.com
XUL News Wire - http://xulnews.com
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allow me to highlight the response by Marc Clifton (of MyXAML fame)
and by Frank Hileman (of VG.NET fame) to the Avalon Knock-Offs blog
story.
Marc writes in the blog story titled "Microsoft Is Missing The Boat":
Regarding Avalon-XAML, I pretty much agree with what he's saying. This
is why I've tried to position MyXaml not as an Avalon-XAML ripoff, but
rather as a declarative programming language in its own right. I
think there's a lot to be gained, possibly generally, in building
applications with a clear separation between declarative and
imperative programming. It makes the task of design and
implementation easier and it provides the customer with a flexible,
customizable, and easily upgradeable product. It opens the door to
server-based rich-thin client applications.
So yes, in my mind, not only is Xamlon missing the boat, but Microsoft
is too.
Regarding VG.net, I think comparing it to Avalon/XAML is like mixing
apples and oranges. It's a self-contained product. And besides, it
has a full-fledged designer which Xamlon and Microsoft don't have.
How you can compare VG.net with Avalon and Xamlon is beyond me.
As to who's borrowing ideas from whom--let's get real here folks.
Avalon borrowed ideas from SVG and XAML is a borrowed idea from
several XML-based declarative languages--both have been available for
years before Microsoft decided to get on board.
Now, one more thing--isn't Microsoft's XAML idea dead? If it's just a
"neat serialization format", so what? We have designers that already
serialize to code. I wouldn't ever want to manually create a vector
graphics serialized image--there are going to have to be good design
tools for that--and edits are pretty much restricted to really simple
changes. So what's the point of XAML if it's just a nifty
serialization format for a UI and vector graphics? I sure don't see any.
Like I said, Microsoft is missing the boat too. I have several
customers that see the benefit of separating declarative and
imperative code and with whom I'm working on developing the rich-thin
client concept further, so it seems there are some people that do "get
it". Microsoft, to date, isn't one of them.
Source: http://myxaml.com/marcclifton/archive/2004/10/05/504.aspx
Frank Hileman writes:
As far as borrowing ideas -- I am the lead dev for VG.net, and have
been building object oriented vector graphics systems since 1986, long
before Avalon, long before SVG, even before X-windows came along. I
have ported graphics sytems to every rendering engine under the sun.
VG.net is a combination of ideas from the past, our own ideas, as well
as a leveraging GDI+ capabilities.
The VG.net styling system is definitely from CSS, which is similar to
SVG. The VG.net object model is designed to be easier to use than SVG,
and as a consequence, it is easier to use than Avalon. But it is not
based on either.
- Gerald
---------------------------
Gerald Bauer
Rich Client Conference (RichCon) 2005 - http://richcon.com
XUL News Wire - http://xulnews.com
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar.
Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/nhFolB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->